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#004 Our visit to the Mega Ecommerce M&S warehouse | Ecommerce Uncovered

#004 Our visit to the Mega Ecommerce M&S warehouse

Discover how Marks & Spencer are working towards achieving 30% of sales through E-Commerce by 2020. Paul and Jeremy pay a visit to the M&S Castle Donnington Deployment Centre, an E-Commerce warehouse large enough to store 12 Jumbo Jets. They are showed around by Nathan Seaburn, the Operations Manager for the site, who talks high end foods, on-off clothing battles, how such a large company pivots, structures, automation, deployments, demand, influential factors, customers and communication.


The Ecommerce Uncovered Podcast is a behind-the-scenes look at what makes ecommerce a success in today’s ever-growing and continually changing online world.

The podcasts look to uncover the secrets of ecommerce success, so you can learn and apply to your own online business.

Brought you by the Co-founders of Core Fulfilment, one of the UK’s leading ecommerce fulfilment service providers, Paul Burns and Jeremy Vernon.

Jeremy Vernon: Hi and welcome to another episode of Ecommerce Uncovered. Today, we just really want to talk about a visit that Paul and I, both had this morning. That visit, was, to the Marks and Spencers Castle Donington Distribution Centre, which just putting context is, or certainly was the biggest ecommerce warehouses in the country when it was built, over 900,000 square foot of warehouse. 25 meters high. To put into context, that’s enough to store 12 Jumbo Jets so I’m told. So, a big, big warehouse.

So, this morning we have the privilege of being churn around the operation. We were very grateful to Nathan Seaburn, who is the Operations Manager for Marks and Spencers at that site. How we have that I’d say, the privilege to go around there. We just want to really want to talk a little bit about the takeaways, but we also brought away from that, and the sort of observations that we had from that visit.

So, very relevant obviously to ecommerce. It’s pretty much at the top end of where ecommerce is. It’s doesn’t get much bigger than that in terms of an ecommerce operations. So…

Paul Burns: Yeah. I think we look as M&S as a brand, the problem with the longest serving name on the British High Street, they’re a sort of a home, housewife’s favourite. They’re well known for their high-end food. Clothing, I know they’ve had on and off battles with the clothing sales over the past 20 years, really. They seemed to sort to change tag every now and again. But to see the set up they have today and hear some of the comments that Nathan was making about the current management team they have there, is, focussed on getting 30 percent of all sales through ecomm, within I think, it’s by 2022.

Jeremy Vernon: I think it did, yeah.

Paul Burns: Yes. So, I mean they are obviously. Sometimes we’ve talked about how it’s more difficult for these big guys that are really established out there, big retail networks to change quickly. But there even those guys seemed to become around to know that ecommerce is a major part of any business.

Jeremy Vernon: Okay. Let’s kick off with the sort of the experience that actually getting there. It’s just at the bottom of the A50, in the Derby Castle Donington. Obviously, just a short drive off the A50, and you approach this absolutely humongous warehouse, brightly branded up with M&S. You obviously, get to park there. So, one of the first obvious things, certainly for me when we got into the security hut, was how seriously they take security.

Paul Burns: Yeah. nobody was getting in there anyway, without dotting the i’s and crossing the t’s.

Jeremy Vernon: Right. I notice as well that there’s just a sort of… Obviously, we weren’t trying to paint some picture here as well, because we’ve had the experience. We want to try and tell you what it was like and paint that picture and give you a visual of how it was.

So, we arrived at Castle Donington Distribution Centre. you obviously, register with security. Then there’s what I called the skybridges are over into the sort of main warehouse. I did notice somewhere when we went across that skybridge, there is a police room. There is a dedicated police operation on site.

Paul Burns: Yeah. Well, I mean, there was the same, was it 600, 700 temporary members of staff they could have during peak, I think it’s probably as much a visual deterrent as anything else. But saying to people. We’re watching you guys. Security is something we take very seriously. But yeah, 2 police rooms, I think, it was. Yeah, I think it was 2 there. Yeah.

Jeremy Vernon: But I think it’s a very bold statement, isn’t it, for anyone entering a building, how seriously they take security.

Paul Burns: Yeah. Well, a lot of contractors are on site as well, you know with all that we’ll talk about it later. But all the automation they had there, all the sort of MHG stuff. They’ll have contractors on site all the time. I supposed that the stuff they’re store in there, is highway desirable. What gifts and fashion and stuff like that. So, I think they’ve definitely taken a strong stance on that.

Jeremy Vernon: Okay, we obviously met as I’ve said, Nathan Seaburn, who’s the Operations Manager there. We just had a bit of a presentation about how the business works and the sort of structure of the people there and sort of peek what it looks like up to 1,400 employees at peak, which obviously is a huge amount of people to manage. We just went through really how that site has developed, because it has been opened now 5 years. Its anniversary is next week. So, yeah, 5 years Anniversary next week for the site. So, it’s 5 years in, and they’re only part way through their plan for that site. So, he will talk in a second. But he talked about the sort of developments and mezzanine floor and all the stuff that they’re planning. But yeah, it’s just an interesting introduction, really. Such a vast site. So, once we’re there. We’ve spoken to Nathan for a while. He took us on a tour into the actual site itself. Just one thing that obviously, was very prominent today, is, they’re on a deployment day.

Now, what that means, is that, they have certain downtime scheduled in. So, all of the automation pretty much there was very few staff there in terms of operatives of warehouse staff. They had a deployment day. So, what that really, is downtime for machinery. It can obviously essential maintenance takes place. Software upgrades. System upgrades. Coding upgrades. Whatever is required for the system. So, in some ways, it was actually great to see it, not working, because it’s a 24-hour operation, 365 days a year. So, any of the time, pretty much it will be a noisy, fast moving environment.

Paul Burns: Yeah, I’ve got the impression that wasn’t good. It wasn’t affecting any of the orders going out today, because they’ve got, you know, you build this monster of a place to deal with. Essentially, your capacity is your last 5, 6 weeks in a year. So, they’re still… I’ve got the impression there’s deployment. All it meant, what they were doing wasn’t going to affect the actual dispatch of consumer orders. So, it would still have been painless for the consumer.

Jeremy Vernon: Yeah. So, the tour we did, obviously, this site absolutely huge, 25m in height. So, it’s as tall as I’ve ever seen a warehouse. I mean to put in context, our warehouse is what? 11m.

Paul Burns: 11, 12 yeah. Something like that, yep.

Jeremy Vernon: So, it’s more than double height of ours. There are 3 sorts of main sections of the warehouse. They called them, chambers, which I though was quite an interesting way to describe it. So, as we walked in, we went into the deep storage chamber and the pick phase chamber, didn’t we?

Paul Burns: Yes. So, that was the sort of have some of the more, some of the box products, and none of them are hanging that was in there. The hanging stuff, all the fashion was in the other end. So, was the deep storage so slow moving good switch. They then threw automation fed into the central chamber, I think, where I seen that?

Jeremy Vernon: Yeah, and that filled up the picture. I try to remember some of the numbers he gives. Now, was it 175,000 pick phase or something like that?

Paul Burns: Yeah.

Jeremy Vernon: It was it. I’ve got some stats on the building. Here, just to help put it in context. As we said 900,000 square feet, 25m tall building. There is 17 km of conveyors. It operates as we said,365 days a year. Up to 2 million single items are processed every week at peak. There is over 9 miles of hanging garments. Now, I come on to sort of what that looked like and the sort of the tour that was in Chamber 3, as they called it.

One of the thing, we will talk about, is, 25 miles of solar PV panels basically on the roof. They also have this solar wall as well, which is something else we’ll talk about. Yeah. up to 15 million products in that warehouse.

Paul Burns: I think that I’m going to jump around here about that hanging chamber. I’ve not been around loads of warehouses, but that was probably, the most impressive thing I’ve ever seen.

Jeremy Vernon: What, from floor to ceiling.

Paul Burns: Just hanging garments. No human ever enters it to pick an item. It’s just fully automated and essentially, brings it to a packer, who is hundreds of meters away. Probably, thousands of meters away by which time it’s done a full journey. Yeah, from floor to ceiling, railed, all automated hanging garments I’ve never seen anything like that.

Jeremy Vernon: No, it is obviously, one of the reasons that we wanted to do this podcast, really. It was just absolutely spectacular. I’m sure if you work there, you’ll soon get used to it, and the sheer size and scale of it. But for someone who, you know, we all drive past these sort of big sheds, either a dual carriageways or motorways, and we typically will just drive and forget about it. We don’t really think about what goes on internally. But when you get to see sort of “behind-the-scenes”. Look, it’s absolutely awe-inspiring. The level of automation, the level of investment that they’ve made in this, to obviously fulfil orders that for M&S as ecommerce activities. So, it’s their only ecomm warehouse in the country.

Paul Burns: In Europe, I think. It does the European stuff as well.

Jeremy Vernon: I believe they’re planning another one. It’s potentially part of the go around about £1 billion investment, that M&S are making over, I think, a 10-year period. But at the moment, every ecommerce order other than ugly sort of rugs, I think it was, isn’t it, is fulfilled from this particular site.

So, yeah, we went into Chamber 1, say, deep storage and everything in Chamber 1. We also noticed they’re clearing an area, weren’t they, in terms of one where they’re putting a 5-level mezzanine floor in, ready for peak this year…

Paul Burns: Yep. I think…

Jeremy Vernon: Which wasn’t there. They were just starting to clear the floor for that.

Paul Burns: Yeah. That’s, I mean, what do we know were begin to queue to sort of they will have, I think, he said, everything had to be in place by September 1st. they were saying if anything hadn’t been sorted by then, it wouldn’t be action in peak then. So, technical deployment sort of not. I mean he’s talking 5 levels of mezzanine. It hadn’t started yet. The space wasn’t cleared. In less than 6 months so that’s…

Jeremy Vernon: To work around it at the same time.

Paul Burns: Yeah, for the rest of the guys and the operation to work there as normal, that will be impressive. I loved to get back and see it once it’s done.

Jeremy Vernon: Yeah. So, we obviously left Chamber 1, moved into Chamber 2. There’s physical device, isn’t it? they’re pretty much between these Chambers, presumably hence why they call them, 1, 2 and 3. That was into the pick, Automated Pick Area, which again, just to sort of paint you a picture here of it was really sort of again, mezzanine floors. There are different levels to it, but pretty much the same on every level. You have that sort of corridors, didn’t you, that were flanked on either side by automated pick phases, and then this corridor, which is where the pickers would stand in front of these machines are just used though, isn’t it, better than I were to describe what they did when they’re picking from the Pick Phase Tote into the Order Tote.

Paul Burns: Well, picking, Jeremy, if you imagine a warehouse, where people go and pick product, this maybe a little bit outdated now. But generally, you’ve got a person with a pick trolley or a pallet truck, with either a piece of paper or a tablet, telling them to go to position A, B, C, D. they go and pick either products of individual consumers or multiple products going into retail perhaps. M&S has taken this to another level. So, their pickers don’t actually have to walk anywhere, however big it is. It must be a third of the building would be full of these great bins that are stored up within the automation, essentially. As orders come in from their website, the system is telling it to take the tote to the picker. On the top level, you had a tote that would turn up. it may have 2 or 3 different products in it. They find the right height. If it’s got multiple items in there, they scan it. then they drop it through this beam of light into the blue tote, which is going to end up being packed by somebody, somewhere else in the building.

So, by dropping it through that light, that says, okay, there’s one item in there, either it’s finished. It zips off and goes to somewhere else, either to another packing station, where it may await another item to go into it, or onto the packing guy to actually put it into a M&S bag or a box. Again, if there are multiple items in there, even if they’re of the same one that makes them scan it. So, the accuracy must just be through the roof. It can also get them to check the inventory of those items in that great bin. So, they’re also stock checking the locations as they go along. But I think he said that he would have one person man 4 of those stations.

Jeremy Vernon: 4 or 6.

Paul Burns: 4 or 6 substations

Jeremy Vernon: Lots of speed, yeah, they will be doing 4 stations as you say, for one picker. One other sort of observation, which was good, obviously, I can’t remember how many stations there were. But these are quite big sort of machines that quite long with all their sort of Pick Phases behind, which you just can’t get access to. That’s all the automation side of it. but everything is done by light, isn’t it? So, you have a sort of a Shift Manager or an Area Manager. If there’s any issue from the pickers perspective, they would sort of switch by the picking station. They will turn different colour of lights on to various different reasons of problems, whether it be product is damaged, something is not there, or the actual picking station has gone down for whatever reason. So, just that it’s really, very simple, but very effective way of communicating through it, which is quite a big area.

Paul Burns: They also had communications everywhere to the staff to say, this is how we expect this area to be left. That was one from, I think, a tidiness perspective, but also an efficiency perspective. If somebody comes in that area, isn’t right and they have to spend 10, 20 minutes in maybe, 4 areas if they’re dealing with the 4, sorting all that out, that is just dead time for those guys at the start of the next shift. So, they really make it clear to the staff, how they expected that to work for the next guy came in to start his packing.

Jeremy Vernon: Yeah. So, we went through that area, say, that was Chamber 2. So, we then moved into probably one of the most spectacular from what I’ve never really seen that before, into Chamber 3. This really was just a vast wall of hanging garments, wasn’t it? The full 25m in height. It must have been depth wise…

Paul Burns: It was a third of the building. So, it must be 300,000 square foot of hanging garments.

Jeremy Vernon: A fully automated obviously, engineers would enter there for maintenance purposes, but other than that, it’s a complete automatically-pick. They were saying that each hanger has its own tag, doesn’t it?

Paul Burns: RFID tags so they know where it is in the building at all times.

Jeremy Vernon: I’m sure there are 600,000 garments in there.

Paul Burns: Yep, sure. I think he did say 640,000, yeah.

Jeremy Vernon: Yeah, which just to see it was spectacular. Again, there’s an element of that Third Chamber, they were redoing it. They were adding another level in. At the back of there, was all the cranes and everything else.

Paul Burns: They have sales stock in there as well as at the end of the line stuff, that they would process manually. Yeah. But there was, I know, today wasn’t a typically busy day, but I thought again, nobody picks in there, it just goes into the Middle Chamber again to be, to have the packing completed.

Jeremy Vernon: Yeah. So, it’s just in terms of what orders will come out of there so any of the ecommerce orders, that you will obviously, place online for M&S come out of there. Also, they don’t call it, Click and Collect, do they? They call it, Shop Your Way, yeah, which is…

Paul Burns: Deliver to store.

Jeremy Vernon: Yeah. So, obviously, they have a separate packing operation for that. Because obviously, they were just basically, collate orders for all the online orders that they’ve been picked, they’ve been stored. Typically, they said, typically on a Friday, people would order Friday, pick up on a Saturday when they’re in the store.

Paul Burns: Yeah, but almost no demand for order on a Saturday, pick up on a Sunday in the store. So, they have a really good understanding of, or they were getting, I don’t know what they were doing what kind of work can it be, what their customers actually wanted.

Jeremy Vernon: But I thought what was interesting, we ran through 2 of the stats with Nathan before we actually have a look of the operation itself. He was talking about the factors that could influence that day’s order volumes. They literally do by hours. So, they will have a projection of each hour of the day, and obviously, 24-hour operation. They have a projection of what orders would come in. They know the profile of those orders by day, which is fine. We see that as well in our business. certainly not on a 24-hour basis though.

But they were saying things like Holly Willoughby wore an M&S top on this morning then that will just throw a little spike in the orders and throw that forecast out completely. It will be so instant, which I guess, you don’t really think about stuff quite that quickly. But when we see with influences with some of our customers, that yeah, one night they may post their video on YouTube or Instagram or whatever, and we’ll see a spike post that put. This was pretty much instant, wasn’t it?

Paul Burns: Yeah. That I think, businesses that have always been ecommerce businesses probably used to dealing with that. but typical marketing for a retail giant like M&S, is probably, 2 or 3 months of getting the right imagery together to go into a magazine or a leaflet or a store or onto TV ads. So, they’re all quite slow call to actions in comparison to Holly Willoughby tweeting a picture of her wearing a M&S top and saying, I’ve got this top from M&S. There is that instant way. There are 5 million people that can see that. Here, even have a link that tell you, the call to action is so quick and so direct as opposed to somebody who leaf through a brochure that comes through the door. That individual was in the past sort of had to go to the store to get it. So, it’s so quick and so reactive. We’ve seen in our business, where somebody may not be hitting numbers. They decided to put a promotion on one night. These companies are so big, that they don’t necessarily tell the Ops guys, oh, by the way, we’ve put promotion on. they’ll come in and they’ll see all those stats queueing out. So, the automation can all help deal with that, I think.

Jeremy Vernon: So, I think we just want obviously, to talk to you about the sort of the experience that we had this morning. We really want it sort of recorded and understand a little bit more about it. But this sort of takeaways that we’ve got, really. So, really, we just want to end this with really what we’ve learned from today’s visit. Because whilst it was spectacular and with all very great, huge amount of automation, huge amount of investments gone in there, what did we obviously, warehouse owners ourselves, or certainly, in our warehouse that we’ve got, what did we take away from that? Because it’s set very much at high-level.

Paul Burns: Yeah, I think the first thing that we both noticed when we walked into the building, we felt we were walking into a M&S Store.

Jeremy Vernon: Brand with absolutely on point.

Paul Burns: Yeah, in that with all the guys had the branded jackets on and the T-shirts that quit often, I can imagine a warehouse will be nothing like the store, but M&S has done that at all. The reception desks, the wall, it literally we thought, we’re walking into a M&S Store that had a warehouse on the back of it. It was all very professional. They guy on security is very polite. Then up to the sort of reception lady, that was a really, really nice lady and made us very welcomed. It was a really good intro. But I think that the first thing that since we’ve got into the warehouse at that moment, it was how much focus that still is on the customer being at the heart of everything. You know they have all the messaging up and I think, it was, every order matters, that sort of ethos, they were definitely have for the frontline staff in the store was being pushed onto the guys in the warehouse cell, who never meet a customer. But it was really prominent, that getting that order right and onto the customer on time, was their Number 1 objective.

Jeremy Vernon: But they’re dealing, you know, they had these areas within the warehouse, that sort of had these, they were whiteboards. But they were like a matrix so they had a preset out way of working and then they can obviously, just each day, write in the numbers. It’s all about how many orders that had failed or how many have failed to go out that day and what particular reason. There’s nothing new there. The level of detail, as I was saying, went to, to look at how they’ve improved. Continuous improvement obviously, something that we’re adopting. But they’ve adopted to an absolute nth degree, which is just amazing just to see how each day they would look at the stats, the KPIs and learn what they have learned on that particular day to make sure that, that never happens again.

Paul Burns: The way that they communicate, that down to the entire team, was incredible. They had areas, where they would assembly everyone first thing at the start of that shift, I think, and talked to them about it. That was another thing, that when I think about our businesses as much as it’s moved on. The way they communicate with the staff, is incredible. You know, visually.

Jeremy Vernon: Well, they had the TVs, hadn’t they?

Paul Burns: Yeah.

Jeremy Vernon: So, the Operations Manager, oh sorry, the General Manager, who wasn’t there actually when we were there. But the General Manager does talk to the Senior Leadership Team of how the last week went. then obviously, had what’s planned for this week. But that gets videoed and put onto TV sets all around the warehouse in some sort of a continuous loop. So, people are completely and utterly aware, whether you’re a cleaner, whether you’re a forklift driver, whatever, you get to see what everyone else’s is hearing. I just think that level of communication was really, really good to see.

Paul Burns: Yeah, the stuff here we see when we walked in, was that, they had some computer points, where people could log on, on their breaks or whatever may be. They had communications from all the sort of the Heads of Department. I really got the impression, that they cared about their staff, which without naming names, I’ve been around in other couple of places this year, and actually know that I’ve been there, I realised how much they didn’t communicate to their staff. The chap that we were with today, Nathan, he talked about finding out about what staff interest, where and what are their value could they add to the business and promoting that, that they should come forward and talk about it. We see the good example of that. Actually, the guy that used to be on the shop floor, was upstairs. He was pulling together reports from, it was hundreds of spreads, hundreds sort of data.

Jeremy Vernon: Yes, he was doing all this, like, internally developed a BI system. He was using VBA. So, he was just basically using spreadsheets. But obviously, the macro is to pull all these data. Now, they’ve got their own BI. They’ve got stuff within the system. But I think like any system, because they’re using so many different systems, has stored so many different sources of information, pulling all of that together can be quite a headache. I mean we’ve run BI in our business, and that runs from various different sources. We know how challenging that can be. But this guy just showed obviously, a real talent for this. As you say, they picked in, he was on the shop floor as a temp?

Paul Burns: Yep.

Jeremy Vernon: They just discovered he had this skill. In fact, he was a programmer by trade. I don’t think he’s sort of went in with that and say, I’m a programmer and he told this. I think they just discovered that he had that talent. Now, he’s helping them manage the business on a really minute detail level.

Paul Burns: His Line Manager has noticed that he was really good at using the system at every level, they had showed them and just flagged up. They’ve picked up on it and done something. But that’s really a great story.

Jeremy Vernon: But that’s sort of the way they would nurture talent. It’s just that it’s incredible to see. I think M&S has a very much sort of an ethos of that. That comes across in terms of the shops. But to see it a warehouse environment, to see that they actually do that in reality, was just great to see.

Paul Burns: Yeah, absolutely, yeah.

Jeremy Vernon: What else do we did we take away?

Paul Burns: Green credentials I put down here.

Jeremy Vernon: Yeah, just the building itself, there are a couple of things that we noticed and we got talking about the sight itself is carbon neutral, which for such a big sight is quite impressive. There are a couple of things here, that I think, you would probably never know, if you didn’t know about it. But we were told one that when this site was built sort of 5 years ago, the concrete and I presume this is the base now, underneath the base, the hardcore underneath the base, was actually recycled from a former power station that was not too far away when it was demolished. So, really, ethically built really the part of the sort of Plan A that M&S…

Paul Burns: Well, they dumped on that area, didn’t they, the carbon neutral stuff?

Jeremy Vernon: Yeah. So, it really in line with their values, which again, where it’s seen, but there was, we mentioned it in the stats, there’s the 25-miles of solar panels on the roof of this place. Obviously, you can imagine the roof is pretty big.

Paul Burns: That was the most in Europe when it was built, I think, he said as well today.

Jeremy Vernon: So, that produces in excess of the power that they are required to run the site. Considering this is a fully automated site, the electric requirement must be huge. But due to the level of investment they made in the PV, they’re actually selling electricity back to the grid. So, it’s actually producing an income rather than consuming electric, which is fascinating. The other thing they have, is, on the presumably the certain aspect of the bill, they have what they called a solar wall. That absorbs heat from the sun and helps heat the building. So, again, I also believed that was the largest solar wall installing in Europe as well. obviously, when they built this in mind, they built it with eco-credentials that M&S live by, which obviously, is part of their Plan A.

Paul Burns: It’s just to hear these things, that it’s nice to see them really in effect, what usually big companies talk about, you know, carbon neutral and stuff all the time. It doesn’t always mean that much as a consumer. But to see it in the flesh, was really cool.

Jeremy Vernon: Okay.

Paul Burns: We’ve covered that a little bit already. But just it’s worth mentioning again, the level of automation that they had, I think, I’ve read somewhere, it was about 125 million of investment in automation. That is planning in advance like I’ve never seen before. It’s absolutely incredible amount of investment.

Jeremy Vernon: But the flow remits, they called it, which is a control room to you and me.

Paul Burns: It’s like air traffic control in there, yeah.

Jeremy Vernon: It was going in there, that were just huge TVs. Obviously, there were all CCTV of the system, and they could see whether it was working. There are literally rows and rows of PCs running all sorts of clever software. They had 3D maps of the building. They could look at which automation element was…

Paul Burns: On and off, and not working.

Jeremy Vernon: It’s sort of like a code itself. It’ll flash red if there’s a problem. It was quite impressive, just been as I’ve said, they called it, the flow room. But it was a really impressive place to be, wasn’t it?

Paul Burns: Yep. You can see it’s obviously, in the control hub of the building.

Jeremy Vernon: Yeah, you can see the level of investment has been made just by being in that room.

Paul Burns: Yeah, I think that we’ve again had some other experiences of automation with guys. Automation is amazing. But, if don’t get it right and you don’t plan far enough ahead, it can be very much a limiting factor in our success. If they can only process X amount per day, and all of a sudden, you’re exceeding that, you’re, kind of, stuck in that point. So, that certainly didn’t give that impression today at the M&S place.

Jeremy Vernon: No, no, not at all.

Paul Burns: Then the last point, I had was 95 percent of all the ecommerce stuff, was clothing, which I found astounding. My experience of shopping in M&S, is a little bit of food, a little bit of homewares and obviously, a lot of clothing now. I’m not sure what they’re particular demographic is, but it’s probably not me. I know as we’ve mentioned earlier, they had this on and of battle with how to make their clothing working sort of, I, kind of remember how long ago, but must be 10 years ago. Maybe, even longer, they had David Beckham was the front man of the brand, of the sort of internal brand called, Blue Harbour, to kind of get that going. Since then, I’m sure they’ve had Jamie Redknapp as well. So, I think they’re obviously, a big player in clothing on the High Street. But I’m not sure they’ve found that sweet spot as yet to translate that online, especially, for that younger demographic, they’re fast fashion guys. We read an article the other day, that said, ASOS now sold more garments of clothing than M&S.

Now, ASOS, I don’t think has been going 20 years. M&S has been going on over 120 years. So, it’s very easy for us to say this. We’re not running a huge retail brand. But I wonder, if there’s some merit to spinning off a new brand, people might not necessarily know as part of M&S, using your buying power, using that facility that have got there, we certainly, see this in ecommerce. We’re about to start working with a client who has done some incredible volume in less than 3 years of starting a clothing brand online. So, I do wonder, if there’s some merit in that. I’m sure they have thought about it. The smarter people are meet there, but that facility could do so much for them. It doesn’t necessarily have to be all under M&Ss brand.

Jeremy Vernon: Yeah. Okay, I hope you’ve found that useful. As we’ve just said, we just really wanted to try and paint a picture really of what we’ve experienced today. Obviously, a video would have been great. But really, that wouldn’t suit the podcast. Of course, not. So, really, that’s sort of our description and then going through it has given me an idea, really of the sheerest scale that this place was in it. It was a great, great experience just to go around there and see how a Tier 1 Retailer works from an ecommerce perspective.

Okay. Well, thank you for tuning in. Until next time, goodbye.

Paul Burns: All right.

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